theblacklistersforum

Open full view…

More than one daughter in fire

lord z
Thu, 18 Jun 2015 02:15:17 GMT

This is something I have been considering since reviewing Lord Baltimore as best I can at the present. but; it is theoretically possible that Masha is not Lizzie and there were two girls or twins in the house at Christmas. It explains the mark being left on the hand of a person you are trying to hide as otherwise the girls look identical, and it could explain the warrior gene and the trigger mechanisms that seem to have developed in Lizzie as of late. It could be there some PTSD coming her way the more she remembers what Red blocked in her memory. Then again if they want to be repetitious they could go with a split personality or my favorite angle an invisible friend, like Harvey the invisible bunny. In blocking the trauma Red might hav unintentionally created a Jeckyll and Hyde complex. WHo wants to hear Megan talk in a creepy little girl's voice every now and then???

djmm1962
Thu, 24 Sep 2015 15:17:44 GMT

That's a possibility, but I think someone figured out a way to manipulate Lizzie's DNA. That's why Red can't simply test her blood to verify if she's his or not. The Ultimate #1 Blacklister!!

lord z
Thu, 24 Sep 2015 17:48:14 GMT

Red unlike Lizzie knows if he impregnated Masha or could have and that is why no blood test by Red. He already knows or thinks he knows all the results he is only afraid of what others may learn from such results.

djmm1962
Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:15:11 GMT

Impregnated Masha?? You mean Katarina, right?? LOL!

djmm1962
Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:20:30 GMT

Katarina was married - it could've been some kind of mix-up and the hubby went ballistic on them when he found out!! In that fire, Lizzy shot one tall man upstairs (the man Masha called Daddy), but there was a guy burning downstairs in the livingroom and I think that was Red. Remember his plastic surgeon, Dr. Moltz (Henry Dice Clay)? That segment was comical, lol. He fixed the scars on Red's face, but not the ones on his back. Poor Red!!

djmm1962
Fri, 25 Sep 2015 19:32:07 GMT

What are you trying to write, Lord Z?? LOL!!

djmm1962
Fri, 25 Sep 2015 19:35:52 GMT

Well ...

lord z
Fri, 25 Sep 2015 19:50:06 GMT

djmm - Katarina, like Red was a spy and most likely checked her moral at the door on the way in. Marriage is not mutually exclusive with sex. Now as for the fire, originally Masha thinks some one else came in and shot "her dad" or at leat the person she thought was her, but originally her stuffed bunny was a live bunny and she was in an imaginary closet as well. At the end of Luther Braxton the doctor tells Lizzie her memories are altered so which person is which is not for certain. Get a better copy of the audio and learn that the wife walked in on the husband so in all likelihood the supposed father not the mother ran out the building. The mother was the one most likely shot & Red being the sin eater most likely grabbed who he could and assumed the fire would cover the story. In the most recent version of the story the couple struggle over the child, not the fulcrum, the gun comes lose, Masha fires it and the person entering the house was shot, other people go searching for "it" as Masha runs away with the gun in one hand and no bunny. This time instead of someone tak ing her hand and walking her out the door, Masha is picked up and carried out the building. We can assume from the outcome of the story that Red did the carrying hence the scars on his back. What we can't assume is whether Lizzie is the only child in the building. We can not assume who was shot or if they died in the fire. Masha was presumed dead but that never happened. Red is some how fortunate enough to grab the uplink and the key but has no idea Masha has the bubble chip in the bunny. Red takes credit for having the fulcrum and runs away but for a while there it appears that Masha and Jennifer were like sisters and Carla cared for both. Lizzie is strangely jealous when Red seems to be looking for Jennifer, something Carla expects. What might have breeze on by you at this point was Red's comment to Carla that he could hardly recognize Carla at this point and his comment to Katherine that Carla is more like his sister at this point than his wife. Perhaps she was the one who had the more extensive plastic surgery. Perhaps she is not who everyone thinks she is. One thing is for certain your average housewife is not likely to kill her captor with a chicken bone while executing her escape. This thread is now very disjointed as it related to the possibility that Lizzie, who as we know is genetically predisposed towards violence could have had her memory wiped to keep her from killing people. The trigger in Lizzie's mind seems to be helplessness. At the point Liz shoots Connolly, he is telling her that he is above the law and she is helpless to stop him. Flashback to the fire and that is the tenor of the argument when Masha fires the pistol. Not to noticeably Red answers his phone and when Liz says she shot Connelly, Red responds like it was inevitable. Then again the trigger could have been when Red was attacked like the person in the fire. Remember General Ybarra who Lizzie came back and shot to save Red. She could have run but like Red she walked back into danger to save Red. 25 years of holding on to the fulcrum and Red suddenly releases it knowing it may not work the way it is intended to, but the time is right, "The truth will out". You could not have asked for a bigger distraction to cover their exit. The news is now more concerned with a conspiracy than with a double homicide. Red tried to get Lizzie to leave the building quietly. She refused. He went about setting up the press conference. She went about trying to find the person(s) who framed her, the person(s) who attacked Red and take them out. Go back to the pilot episode and it was always foreshadowed Liz like Red saves a little girl from danger, a general's daughter has been weaponized to kill, Liz protects the little girl as Red disarms the situation and gives away the bomb. Liz kills Connolly who killed the Senator by weaponizing Liz and Red blows up the fulcrum so to speak to get her safely out of Washington or so he hopes. My thought is that the Director fears Lizzie now more than Red and hoped that Red would use the fulcrum in this manner to add urgency to the Director's plans, The cabal, now under fire must defend itself; Liz is now public enemy#1; and Red is now back to being a fugitive with Liz by his side. The problem I have in all this is linguistics. The people in the Fire were supposedly Russian and yet they spoke English, fairly unusual for people in their own home not to speak their native tongue, unless one was not Russian and the other might have been. Anyway, round and round we go and where this goes I may not know but consider the possibility.

lord z
Fri, 25 Sep 2015 20:43:16 GMT

Oooh an yes wrote Masha on pregnant meant Katerina because as we know Liz is afraid of getting pregnant, hence the adoption with Tom.

djmm1962
Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:18:01 GMT

Yes, I remember Red saying that Carla looks so different now, but everyone changes in 20+ years. She probably kept both girls at that cabin for a short while when they were young and I'm thinking they're about the same age. Red confirmed that Lizzie shot the man she thought was her Dad, so I'm gonna trust Red and believe that a man died (not her mother). Even after watching and rewatching (atleast 75 times, lol; but not an enhanced soundtrack like you) everything is pure speculation. We need Red to provide us with more clues. Thank GOD their summer break is over. I will be more than ready on Thursday!!

lord z
Mon, 28 Sep 2015 21:22:29 GMT

1. you are trying to ignore the stated words "I hardly recognize you" odd considering he identified her from a DL photo. 2. probably is again us writing the story, what you were told is the fire was in 90, the trial was in 94 but Red was supposedly missing before 91 when he was supposed to have sold secrets. Doubtful Red kept Lizzie that long considering he has to wipe her memory as well. 3 No, he did not. Lizzie confirmed it to Red and Red did not correct her perception of events. If you watch the video again Red puts Liz in the fictitious closet before the fight hence the Naval academy class ring. You know it is fictitious because there are no closets upstairs in the hall and she has a live bunny to hold. Do not boost the sound, just listen to Lizzie's words as she states that a woman with men came in the house screaming "WHERE IS SHE???" Katerina came looking for Masha not the fulcrum. She was told the "it" was there are the only way to protect them. Katerina tells the others to search for "it". The fight ensues. Masha picks up the gun and fires it. No telling if she killed anyone. She runs on up the hall with gun in hand, no bunny. A fire is started, no telling how. Unlike in the original version of the memory Masha does not walk out of the closet but she is carried out of the house. No need for speculation, we have been given many clues. The only one who would have a naval academy ring is Red. The people are all speaking English not Russian so most likely not all KGB. BTW, no reports of the incident as in Red killed anyone, let alone three people in a fire that day so we have no bodies, no grave sights and Lizzie is going to wonder if her mother is alive not thinking she may have only wonder the man but reverse it and assume for a second the mother was shot and the father was rushed out the door. Red saved the girl(s) and perhaps the mom and all are presumed burned up in the fire. Clue: Fitch is absolutely sure the fulcrum exists. the Director is not but knows what Katerina looks like. Fitch was compartmentalized after the fulcrum (Lester Caul says so) and the moment the Director find out it exists he focuses his attack on Lizzie not Red. Clue: The mark on LIzzie's wrist, the mark on the envelopes and the mark on the go boxes are not used by Red but by a person or person's supposed to be Red. Odd how the mark was not removed from Lizzie's wrist as it clearly marks her from all others. Clue: the flat in Bethesda is set for a woman of Russian Orthodox decent not a man, a woman who likes Cats and who follows WW2 generals. Here is another clue: "The truth will out", is a Shakespearean quote a son gives to his father the son told the father he was dead when he was not. The child in this case would be Liz, the parent(s) as yet to see the fulcrum news conference. Enjoy Thursdays, but expect your clues to lead you to the mom. I was looking for Jennifer in all this. Why run away like Zoe? What did she think Red did? Why is Liz jealous of Jennifer?

djmm1962
Tue, 29 Sep 2015 14:18:58 GMT

I didn't know the ruby ring was a naval academy ring. We only saw it once, and the next time we saw someone putting Lizzie back into the closet they wore black gloves which may mean two different men were there. But, we can't trust anything Lizzie remembers. As the doctor said, it's all jumbled up in her mind. I like your clues - keep them coming, please!!